eBay Browse & Search Manipulation Issue
Paying eBay FP Fees - but Being Short Changed?
eBay Turns Deaf Ear to Complaints About Unethical Sellers Trashing eBay's FP System & Creating Unfair Business Advantage
eBay Browse/Search Manipulation Petition:
http://www.petitiononline.com/bsmanip/petition.html Several ebay artists whose businesses have been severley affected (some to the point of complete loss of business) have been making reports to eBay for the past seven months regarding numerous unethical sellers who are using techniques to monopolize the 'newly listed' area of the American Paintings and Self-Representing sub-categories of the Art category, as well as the top level ART category itself. The technique they are using - constant revisions to their listings - allows them to revise a listing and that revision will bring an old listing back to the top of the category as a 'newly listed' item. These sellers, repeat offenders of fee circumvention and browse/search manipulation are to blame for creating an un-level playing field; and eBay is to blame for ignoring the thousands of reports from the sellers who have been reporting this issue since it began.
What these sellers are doing falls under the 'fee circumvention' and 'search manipulation' categories and goes against eBay's policy on fee circumvention and search manipulation. There is no 'glitch' involved. What these sellers are doing is being done by them willfully, purposefully and mindfully. What is happening is happening because a few individuals are using a 'technique' (constant revisions to their listings) to circumvent paying FP fees (daily.. or multiple times daily), and to manipulate eBay's search function to show an older listing as 'newly listed'. To be clear this is not a case of "oops the title of my listing is wrong and I need to make a correction" revision that we are talking about. It is the continual revisions to a listing - (either done with constant manual revisions or by the use of a software program to make the constant revisions).
eBay is equally to blame for the the loss of business that is occurring too by the unlevel playing field that has been created, and allowed to continue in their marketplace. eBay has turned a deaf ear to these complaints for over seven months. eBay refuses to uphold their own policies on fee circumvention and browse/search manipulation. To date eBay has not removed one listing, nor suspended any of the repeat offenders breaking fee circumvention and browse/search manipulation policies.
It is not only the sellers who have been affected. Buyers are affected by this scam too. The majority of buyers that shop eBay do so by searching categories and then choosing the 'newly listed' search function within those categories. The buyers are being given false search returns when searching 'newly listed'. They are being shown listings that are days old as newly listed, all the while the honest sellers paying FP fees are having their listings covered up.
eBay representatives have stated this is fee circumvention and search manipulation, yet these same sellers are allowed to continue this practice, making an unfair playing field for the honest sellers in these categories. The following threads are just a sampling of the discussions on eBay where this issue is addressed.
http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?messageID=1010804717&forumID=35&x#1010804717 UPDATE: Jan 12 2008 the above thread which was titled Marni isn't interested neither is Live or eBay - has now been removed off of ebays servers. That page showed where this complaint was made on eBay's public forums on how this issue was taking place and that eBay was doing nothing about it. You can see a screen capture of that thread here
http://forums.ebay.com/db1/thread.jspa?messageID=2008612122&tstart=0&x UPDATE: Jan 20 - The above thread also discussed the issue - it was titled Search and Browse Manipulation - eBay's lax enforcement - it was on eBay's Policies - User Agreement boards.
http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?threadID=2000486423&tstart=0&mod=1198415470845 http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?threadID=1000621843&tstart=0&mod=1200753605507 Additionally, every seller who had been paying their FP fees (as much as $35.00 per listing) has not been receiving what they are paying for in regards to the 'exposure' they should be receiving because the unethical sellers participating in the 'bumping' of their listings are covering up those sellers who will not participate in the unethical behavior.
I've personally received emails from over 20 artists over the past several months asking for my advice/help with the situation with FP on eBay, that is why I am taking the time to put this page together.. it is easier for me to have one place I can direct everyone to for help (at least as much as I can give you) on this situation.
The majority of the artists contacting me will not post to eBay's boards for fear of harrassment - their fear is justified and quite honestly that is not where you need to make your case heard. You need to complain to the correct departments at eBay and in the correct format if you wish to see changes made. I know, we've been reporting this for months to no avail - but we have to continue to do so in the hopes we will get someone either on eBay or off to listen to and assist us.
Why Has This Been Allowed To Continue For So Long With So Many Sellers Reporting This Issue To eBay?
eBay makes reporting this issue impossible. And, in regards to the case of at least one of the worst offenders monopolizing the 'newly listed' section of the categories, there may be good reason for eBay wanting to sweep this particular situation under the rug. The sellers reporting this issue know exactly what that means.
This page will be regularly updated on how and where to report the issue to eBay... it seems the method on who and where to report this issue is constantly changing so you will have to be diligent with your reporting if you are fighting to get this issue to come to an end.
The sellers who are listing and 'revising' their items to continue to bring them to the top of the 'newly listed' area of the categories, even though the items may be days old are guilty of fee circumvention and search/browse manipulation. This was admitted to us by an eBay representative who agreed the sellers doing this are using a 'technique' to circumvent the fees of the FP and a 'technique' that fools ebay's search system.. i.e.
search manipulation as described by ebay in their tutorial on search manipulation (here)...
"Search and browse manipulation results in a poor shopping (finding) experience for buyers because it returns listings that the buyer doesn't want. Search and Browse manipulation also makes the playing field uneven for sellers who don't violate these policies and can receive fewer potential buyers."
They did take our reports and submit them to Trust and Safety, in a manner which we could not via the forms that eBay lets us submit to Trust and Safety but we were recently told that now this needs to be reported to eBay's listing team too, and we have reported it to them, and asked for live chat help to report it to them for us as well. Here is what you should do if you would like to state your case, request that something be done about this issue, and since you have not been getting the benefits of FP as you should ask eBay if you will be reimbursed the money you have been paying in FP fees.
Here is what you need to do...
Email your powerseller rep and/or if you don't have one use Live Chat and provide them with all of the following information and ask them to fwd it to eBay's listing team and Trust and Safety for you - and then take that same information (all listed below) and report it through the form at the link below (they just gave us this link Dec. 27th.)
Most of these unethical sellers participating in this open second accounts to do this so 'when' they get shut off they can go back to selling. We were told by eBay this doesn't make it right, and it doesn't make their - 'first' account safe. Here is how to report the situation if you would like to see it brought to an end.
1) - Contact your ebay powerseller rep, an eBay Live Chat (they have been the most helpful) rep and this form with the following info....
when contacting them let them know....
a) - let eBay know how long this has been going on and how long your business has been affected by it.
b) - let eBay know the ebay id's of the individuals doing this - if they have two accounts they need both id's. most of the sellers doing this open second accounts to do this so that if/when they get shut off they can go back to selling under their other id.
c) - let eBay know that this goes against their own policies on 'fee circumvention', and search manipulation.
Cite for eBay their own rules of fee circumvention and search manipulation - link to their tutoriasl on fee circumvention and search manipulation. I've provided the link for you below.
http://pages.ebay.com/help/tutorial/feecirctutorial/intro2.html In eBay's tutorial on fee circumvention it states...
General Overview of the Policy
Any systems or techniques to avoid or circumvent eBay fees are considered fee circumvention. Fee Circumvention is not allowed on eBay. Listings that circumvent (avoid) fees can create a poor buying experience and an un-level playing field by putting sellers who pay all their eBay fees at a disadvantage. This makes it harder for all members to sell items. Furthermore, these listings undermine trust in the eBay Marketplace.
Violations of this policy can result in a range of actions, including:
Listing cancellation
Forfeit of eBay fees on cancelled listings
Limits on account privileges
Loss of PowerSeller status
Account suspension
This is what these sellers are doing, using a technique (revisions) to bump their listings back to the TOP of the categories, getting the benefits of the newly listing aspect of the FP over and over again but only paying the fee once. This creates a very poor buying experience for the buyers - as they come to the categories searching 'newly listed' only to find listing after listing of listings that are days old, not newly listed. What these sellers are doing also creates an un-level playing field by putting sellers who pay all of their fees at a disadvantage.
eBay's tutorial on Search Manipulation can be found here.
In their tutorial on 'search manipulation' it states...
"Search and Browse policies are those policies concerned with listing practices that result in a poor or "cluttered" finding experience for buyers or that un-level the playing field between sellers." it also states, "Search and browse manipulation results in a poor shopping (finding) experience for buyers because it returns listings that the buyer doesn't want. Search and Browse manipulation also makes the playing field uneven for sellers who don't violate these policies and can receive fewer potential buyers."
This is what these sellers are doing. Cluttering the 'newly listed' area of the categories with listings that are anything but 'newly listed'.. creating a poor shopping experience for the buyers, and unlevel playing field for the sellers.
d) - provide eBay with item numbers.
e) - ask eBay that this information be forwarded to Trust & Safety and eBays Listing Team for you and let them know that you would do it yourself but the form we are given to contact Trust and Safety and eBay's listing team regarding 'fee circumvention' - does NOT give us room to provide full details, but only item numbers. Let them know that nowhere are you able to contact eBay about fee circumvention in which you are allowed to detail the story for them. If you report an item for fee circumvention on eBay you will receive an email back from them now stating... "We base our decisions for this offense on the content of the item description, item title, and shipping information." --- this is a huge part of our problem - eBay makes it impossible to report this situation (and the unethical sellers doing this know this). So you have to be a little more diligent in your complaints if you want something done.
f) - provide eBay with all links on public and private forums within eBay where this issue is being discussed.
g) - provide eBay with all of the information on how you have reported this to eBay previously and what type of responses you received, depts, names, etc
Remember to ask ebay live chat or in email to your powerseller rep. that they fwd it to you to.... 1) EBAYS LISTING TEAM and 2) Trust and Safety for you (because you are not given proper forms to do so yourself).
eBay Making It Impossible to Report Fee Circumvention & Search Manipulation - And What To Do About It
UPDATE - 12-27 ALSO TRY THIS FORM
(update 12-27) Karl O. in eBay live chat said to also try this form...
http://pages.ebay.com/help/contact_us/_base/result_2_2_12.html - he did not state 'where' this goes to, but it has an ope form where you can submit full information - not just item numbers.
remember kiddies.... "Any systems or techniques to avoid or circumvent eBay fees are considered fee circumvention. Fee Circumvention is not allowed on eBay." - so says eBay. Sitting and revising listings over and over again (which many sellers have been doing since I believe July) is a 'technique' used to avoid fees. :-)
Stay on top of the issue - keep in contact with the ebay live chat, your powerselling rep, etc. - Use this form and report the item numbers and details of the situation on the fee circumvention issue until eBay takes the appropriate measures.
With reports from everyone I have talked to that has been reporting this issue to eBay for the past seven months, it is clear that every dept. at eBay that can receive complaints on this issue has received complaints on this issue. Bill Cobbs office has even been contacted on this issue, with letters of confirmation that the information has been received. This is being continually ignored by eBay. Very unfortunately it appears it is now up to the sellers not eBay to make eBay a fair trading environment. Sadly, even though many of us are continually reporting this issue to eBay, it is still being swept under the rug, and eBay refuses to address the issue.
When You've Exhausted All Means of Contacting eBay & Still Receive No Assistance Make a Report Against eBay to the BBB.
Once you have exhausted all means of reporting this issue to eBay, as most sellers affected by this issue already have, I encourage you to file a complaint against eBay with the BBB, The Internet Fraud Complaint Center, and the California's attorney General office. Instructions on how you can do that can be found here. Please feel free to email us the stories of how your business has been affected by this here .
Michel Keck
ebay id: therawartist
just one of the many sellers reporting this issue to eBay
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UPDATE: 3-14-2008
Yesterday I received a letter in the mail back from the California attorney general's office. The letter was a 'thank you' for filing the complaint and that the matter would be looked into, etc., Since eBay has been given all of the above information, numberous times by myself and others I found it necessary to contact other sources such as BBB (who has also responded a couple of weeks ago), and the California attorney generals office. I encourage you to contact them as well to report the full story in the likelihood that with enough reports we can gain assistance with this issue.
If you would like to sign a petition to call for the suspension of the repeat offenders and for the reimbursement of fp fees from eBay please add your name and ebay id to the petition to ebay here
UPDATE: 3-22-2008
Thursday mar 21th eBay started finally pulling the listings of these sellers, and finally started to admit that what these sellers have done is both fee circumvention and browse/search manipulation. A complete shame that eBay ignored this very serious issue until they realized that we would no longer stay silent and that petitions off eBay calling for the reimbursement of fees, and suspension of these sellers as well as reports that we would be contacting the media. While eBay has pulled a few listings they have not made any statements on reimbursing our FP fees for the over 7 months that many sellers paid for a service in which they did not receive even close to the full benefits for. eBay has also allowed these sellers who violated several policies daily for months to remain sellers in good standing on eBay.
